Ozone Mag (1996)
They’re Just A Band
It's the classic overnight success story: band comes out of nowhere, scores the big hit, and everyone wonders where they came from. But the real truth is, they've been around forever and gone through hell to get there. Such is the case with No Doubt. Sure, most Americans only know the band through their breakthrough pop hit "Just A Girl" and their latest single, "Spiderwebs": both songs are cute and peppy, yet in their own way, smart and snotty, thanks mostly to singer Gwen Stefani's don't-take-no-shit delivery (even though those comparisons to Missing Persons' Dale Bozzio are right on). But No Doubt has been a well-kept secret in Orange County, California for nine years, playing show after show to a devoted audience of the skate-ska subculture.
They've had their share of travails: their original lead singer killed himself; founding member Eric Stefani (Gwen's brother) became disillusioned with music and the music business and left the band in late 1994 (taking a job as an animator on The Simpsons); and Gwen and bassist Tony Kanal recently ended their longtime romantic involvement, yet still coexist in the band. If that weren't enough, they were given the cold shoulder by their label, Interscope, from day one, and so had to record their second album, Tragic Kingdom, on the fly, after work, in the middle of the night, whenever.
Yet somehow, the band's dogged persistence has finally paid off. Tragic Kingdom is now gold, proving that if you stick to something long enough you'll eventually succeed. Ozone talks with No Doubt's Kanal and guitarist Tom Dumont for the lowdown on the highs and lows
You were signed to Interscope in 1991, and released an album that was largely ignored. After that, Interscope essentially back-burnered you. Were you ever frustrated to the point of either giving up the band or separating yourselves from the label?
Kanal: Yeah. We got close to both of those, but we never went through with either of them, to our benefit. We were affected by the growing pains of Interscope in those years. The company was expanding so rapidly that we were one of the casualties, the shit that gets left behind. But obviously, they still held onto us. We never actually sat down and said, "This is it. The band is breaking up." But there were times between 1993 and '95 when we were making Tragic Kingdom when we were very frustrated. There were low points, because we were dying to get the music out.
Dumont: We never could get a release date, and it felt likex We had some question as to whether the album would ever come out. I think most of the people at Interscope weren't even aware we were making a record. They probably hadn't heard anything, and no one had a chance to even get behind it. So I don't think it was their fault. I think our A&R; guy was trying to keep it a secret until the whole thing was finished. So for all that time we felt very ignored, but I think it was more that they weren't aware. After we realized that, after things started coming together with the release of the record, it all fell together, and we were glad we stuck it out.
What was your grounding in that period? Was it the fact that you had this huge following in Orange County?
Kanal: Absolutely. People were so loyal. We got so much support from them it just kept us going. We always had good shows to look forward to. Through all the bullshit, those were things we could control - writing songs and playing shows. And we all stuck together, us four. We tried to make light of everything that was going on and not take things too seriously, not get so fucking wrapped up in all the bullshit.
Did you really have to record this album on the fly? It sounds so ironic - you're on a major label, and yet you can't even settle into a studio to record an album; you had to do it on a weekend in the middle of the night - the guerrilla approach.
Kanal: Exactly. That's how we made this record. You can look at the credits. There are eleven different studios there.
Dumont: That was hard. We were all working. A typical day would be, I would go to work at 7, get off at 3, commute to L.A. (from Orange County), which is kind of a shitty process, get in at like 4, and record until 2 in the morning, and then drive back and go to work the next day. And that happened a lot. That was the process. But now that we're through, it's all in the past, and we're glad it's over.
How did you hook up with Matthew Wilder?
Kanal: The record company. When we first started out with him it was a little rocky, but as we started working with him and as he started to see how we liked to work, that we were very hands-on as a band, things got a little more comfortable. His forte is working on vocals, so for Gwen it was a very positive learning experience.
Were you familiar with his big hit, "Break My Stride"?
Kanal: Absolutely.
And you didn't think, "Oh no, cheesy pop guy?"
Kanal: Well, to be honest with youx No. I mean, fuck. Whatever. It doesn't matter. That was the past. He had something new to bring to the tablex He's quite talented.
Now that the band has become big, do you get a sense from Eric like, "Oh shit, I left the band too early?"
Kanal: No. Here's the whole Eric-leaving-thing: In the process of making the record in 1994, he was no longer having a good time being in the band. He was just not enjoying all the other business bullshit that comes with it. So while we were writing songs then, he wasn't really with us spiritually. He wasn't on the same wavelength. So he was actually gone from us emotionally that whole year. Then in December he physically said, "I'm not playing with you guys anymore. That's it." But we'd already recorded a bunch of stuff for Tragic Kingdom. And even though he physically stopped playing with us, we still brought him back to finish the last couple of tracks in the studio, just so the record was consistent. And he was cool about that. And also we included his name as a band member, just out of respect, 'cause he was with us for so many years. And he's obviously Gwen's brother, so we're still in contact with him. But there was a lot of stress, a lot of problems, and I can honestly say that I'm more his friend now. I can talk to him now more than when we were in the band with that bullshit looming over our heads together. I don't think he regrets it at all. He's moved on, he does other stuff.
Most people don't even realize you guys have been around for nine years, and yet they think you're an overnight success.
Kanal: Yeah, there's that misconception, especially outside of California, like here we are, coming out of nowhere, when in fact we've had this pretty rich history on the West Coast.
Are you concerned that this is just your 15 minutes of fame, that it may not last?
Kanal: We're totally aware of the whole one-hit-wonder thing. But see, we've already maintained a history. We've been together so long, as long as us four stay together, regardless of what happens to this record, we'll be able to keep making music, and that's the bottom line. Whether or not we make a career of it, I hope. It'd be nice to survive on it too.
Do you feel a sense of redemption now after that nine-year struggle to finally have a hit or two?
Dumont: It feels good that we can finally can say we weren't failures, that we succeeded. Any dream we could have possibly had has come true. We never expected multi-platinum success (and we're still not there), but just the fact that we're getting to tour the country, and to say we made a gold record. But at the same time, we don't feel like rock stars. People don't recognize us from the streets or anything. So it hasn't changed our life in that way. I don't get special attention from anybody, which is fine. That's not what we were out for in the first place. The best thing about it is that we get a chance to make another record. But hopefully this time it'll be a much better experience.
Having been through the hard time together, do you feel more grounded now so that you can appreciate the success with more perspective?
Dumont: Yeah. We're pretty well into our '20s. We appreciate the success and we also appreciate the fact that it might me gone. We're not living as if this is going to go on forever. We're not out buying cars and taking drugs and spending money on stupid things. We're pretty grounded, and we're trying to take a mature swing at it. We don't party all the time. That stuff gets in the way. We're here to play music and do our best at that.
Is ska the Next Big Trend?
Kanal: No. People always ask us that. Some ska-influenced stuff will always come and go, and it will always be there as this underground current, but do I think all of a sudden ten ska bands will come to national attention? I don't think so. And we don't consider ourselves a ska band. We're definitely influenced by ska, but we're a rock band that plays ska and reggae and hardcore and soul and mixes around a bunch of styles.
And you don't even mind that people call you New Wave?
Kanal: No. We take that too. We grew up in the '80s. It would be a lie to say we were not influenced by The Cars, Oingo Boingo and Missing Persons.
Are you trying to distance yourself from ska to increase your career in the long run?
Dumont: No. We always knew that ska was an underground thing. And "Just A Girl" is not a ska song. We're definitely not trying to get away from ska. People have considered ska to be a novelty, like you can't make a long-term career playing it, but it's not the logic we follow. Really, we're just gonna write the music that feels right to us. And Tragic Kingdom is not a ska album. If you gave that to a ska fan they'd go, "what?" It's all over the place.
You've even got the disco horns happening on "You Can Do It."
Dumont: We like to have fun. We don't like to impose limits. We like to have fun playing whatever we feel like, and we just got lucky at it.
Do you think one reason for your success now may be that after the whole punk explosion people want something a little lighter?
Kanal: Yeah, because things go in cycles. The grunge thing can only last so long, and this resurgence of new wave can only last so long. But a lot of it has to do with being in the right place at the right time and having the record company behind you. Just getting on the radio is very political. Hopefully it gets to a level where it's the music that people are responding to, though. It's ironic that the label that was once squeezing the life out of us is now working for us. I think we all know what the bottom line is for record labels.
Dumont: And I think there will always be people who will want to hear more upbeat music. But the timing is definitely there.
It's more the mood of the country.
Dumont: Exactly. I mean, I don't know if we're going to have a career after this or not, but we like the idea of being able to change, of being fluid enough to be able to adapt. We're not AC/DC, where every album is the same style. We'd like to be able to take it someplace new.
Tony, you and Gwen used to be in a relationship. Is it weird now, since you're still in the band together but no longer a couple?
Kanal: Yeah. It is weird. It's a very interesting social situation that we've put ourselves into. We just try to adapt to it daily.
But it's working out?
Kanal: For the most part it's working out. You just have to deal with it. When we started I was 16, Gwen was 17, and this has been our lives for almost a decade. So it's really everything we've known, everything we do, and we've been doing it together, so it's not something we're gonna throw away over petty problems, or shit that you go through when you have to deal with an ex that you have to work with. I don't suggest that anybody else do it, and I don't think it's the healthiest situation you would want to put yourself into.
The band is like a baby you had together, and now you have to continue to raise it together.
Kanal: That's so true. Even though you get divorced, you want the baby to have the best childhood. You want to take care of it, so you try to put aside your differences to watch this thing grow.
"Just A Girl" obviously connects with, well, women. What's the reaction you've noticed at shows? What's going on there?
Dumont: There's a thing where we get a lot of young girls come see us play on this tour - they're totally into it. For whatever reason it works for them. But at the same time, we watch Bush play [No Doubt has been opening for Bush] and they all fucking love Gavin too.
With Alanis being so big, girls seem to have found a voice in the culture right now. And "Just A Girl" is one song girls have really taken to heart.
Dumont: I think that's a good thing. There's tons of great female artists, and it's awesome to see them do well. There should be equal time; I think it's nothing but healthy and positive to have lots of female artists out there, whoever it is. Thank god it's happening, because girls need to look up to a singer more than just because he or she is cute.
There is actually an analysis that says young rock fans either identify with the singer or desire him/her. Gwen is hitting on both levels, because guys desire her and girls identify with her.
Dumont: Yeah. And music out there is kinda like a menu. Most people listen to tons of different bands. And there's a place for every style. When you're in the mood for No Doubt, it works. So I think there's a place for us.