Fat Mascara (Feb. 25th 2022)

Jennifer G. Sullivan: Hello everyone, and welcome to Fat Mascara. I'm Jenn.

Jessica Matlin: I'm Jess.

Jenn: And if I sound excited it's because this ep, I'm not going to make a joke. I was about to say this episode is banana, B-A-N-A, all right, I'm done.

Jess: Oh God, please.

Jenn: Gwen, if you're listening, I'm so sorry. Jess, are you ready for this?

Jess: I'm kind of ready. I am sort of like, I'm not, I'll just heads up. I'm not listening to this episode because it's too embarrassing. Like I was there, but I don't need to be there again because I totally, well, I lost it. I lost it.

Jenn: Not even a week before we knew that this was actually going to happen, Jess and I had a full conversation, not knowing this was going to happen, about how much we loved Gwen, how much we loved No Doubt. We were talking about concerts. It went back to like what's a concert that... It was a whole story. And then we found out Gwen is launching her own makeup line. You know what? We get a little cynical about celebrities launching lines. We've talked about that on the show. I will be honest, this one makes sense. Gwen Stefani, a color line. There are lipsticks. There's a brow pencil. There's a red lipstick. It's just, she's a beauty girl. She's a beauty girl.

Jess: Her line is called GXVE. It's been a long time coming and she gives us an amazing interview. And I have to say, this is one for the books and I'm just so grateful that she came to Fat Mascara. We have an exclusive interview.

Jess: Gwen, thank you for coming. Let's hit it.

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Jess: First of all, Gwen, I am so happy that we're doing this. This is a total dream for me. I've just got to be honest, I'm just going to out myself right now. I am a tremendous fan. I'm a tremendous No Doubt fan, tremendous Gwen Stefani fan. I've seen you more times than I can count as No Doubt and as a solo artist. I've been a huge fan of your style since the jump. So just to completely embarrass myself, when I was a teenager I read that you wore Urban Decay Gash lipstick, so guess who went out and bought Urban Decay Gash?

Gwen Stefani: You better.

Jess: You wore a studded belt, I wore a studded belt. You had bangs, guess who cut bangs?

Gwen Stefani: Oh, no.

Jess: I didn't look like Gwen Stefani, my friend told me I looked like Tracy Bonham instead, not the effect I was going for. So for a young person like myself back then, seeing your style was really empowering because you just looked so confident and looked so intentional. It was really feminine, but it was very self assured and it just looked like you were so sure of yourself. When you started, did you feel so sure of yourself? Was it a very intentional style?

Gwen Stefani: Really what's interesting is, at this point in my life, normal people don't just sit there and analyze themselves and go back and talk to people they don't know about about their past selves. But for some reason, God put me in this position to be able to do that. So I've been thinking about that a lot. Also, I feel like I've been through a huge transformation in my life, like my personal life, so that version of me back then was so naive. I grew up in a family where my family was the most important thing. I was very, very sheltered. Kind of idealistic family with lots of love and things like that. So I think I was just a very naive person back then. Of course I had my own insecurities and things like that, but those insecurities are what kind of made my style and made me be who I was.

Gwen Stefani: And it wasn't until later that I looked back and I was like, whoa, okay. They like that? They like me? Like me being me by all of my faults? Okay, well, I guess I'm winning and I'm not even trying. I'm just trying to express myself. So I was definitely not confident in that way, but I was also just sort of floating and just going and I didn't think a lot about things. I wasn't as smart, I think, as I am now because I've lived and I've learned, but I think that definitely the one thing that was different was being able to get up on stage and have kind of an alter ego. Like a different version of myself where I was like, they gave me their love and then I gave them back. I slapped them around and then they liked that. So that was something where I got to be a different version of myself and yeah.

Gwen Stefani: And the thing is that, because we are here to talk about makeup, and I feel like that makeup up was a huge part of that person. Whether it'd be on the stage or off the stage, being able to be creative through makeup and showing that version of myself, whatever that might be that day, is what gave me my identity.

Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Your makeup and your look was a huge part of your persona, and I think what a lot of girls like myself certainly responded to. Absolutely I want to talk about your line, I just want to be clear about that. We're going to get to lot of those questions, but-

Gwen Stefani: No, but I was like it tied into what we were talking about so well. [crosstalk] there.

Jess: Okay. I guess I just want to make sure you feel comfortable knowing that we're going to be talking about your line. But I do have another question about-

Gwen Stefani: I want to talk about anything you want me to talk about. I'm into it.

Jess: Okay. Good, good, good. So another question is just about your broader music career. So Gwen, you're saying, it's funny, that you're wiser now and you can kind of look back on things with a much different point of view, but when you think about artists today and thinking about the way female artists presents themselves, so much has changed. Seeing you perform today versus seeing you perform in the '90s, the spectrum and just kind of the climate has changed so much, but you're still killing it. When you look at female artists today, do you think how the music industry allows women to sort of express themselves has changed? Because you've been able to express yourself in '95 in the same way you're expressing yourself now. Like you're still killing it.

Gwen Stefani: Back in the day, I didn't suffer some of the stuff that other probably female artists maybe at that time did. I was so lucky because I was already in my band with my big brother, by the way, and my boyfriend for nine years before anyone, I mean, basically knew who we were. We had our underground following that was kind of this built in following from the moment we started. We were so blessed. We were obviously always doing something that was opposite of what was popular. We knew we were doing unpopular music. We knew it would never make it on the radio, but we didn't really have dreams. We did it because it was the procrastination to trying to have a backup job or go to school. You know what I mean? It was our fun.

Gwen Stefani: And so I think that, again, kind of ties in with my last answer, which is just trying to be real and just being real. Accepting who you are, but in a naive way. I can look back now and go, oh, I did that. I didn't know I was doing it at the time and I don't think we really thought much about it. We were just like, "Oh my gosh, we got practice on Thursday. Dad, can I have $5 so I can rent a microphone?" I mean, it was literally that simple. And when we got signed to Interscope, which was a brand new label at the time, we were the second band signed. I think it was Marky Mark and a few other people. Nine Inch, I can't remember who was there at that time.

Gwen Stefani: But point being, Jimmy Iovine, who was kind of the one that said, "You're going to be a star in six years," and then on the dot, six years later Don't Speak was number one around the world, he had this vision for Interscope and his artists and it was very, very artist-driven. Like it was all about the artist's point of view and he was just this very cool guy. And I never felt like, oh, I can't do this because I'm a girl. I always felt like my voice was heard and my place was this creative person and people listened to me. So my journey, that's what my journey was. You know what I'm saying?

Jess: Yeah.

Gwen Stefani: The thing is that I was blessed like that and I know not everyone had that. I mean, at the time there wasn't a lot of girl bands. When I was in Anaheim growing up, it was like all kind of punk rock bands that we played with. And so that was where I kind of would have to prove myself or someone would say rude things. Or I would be like, okay, you're not going to come back here, it's just the band. But I'm in the band. They would assume that I was a groupie. You know what I'm saying? So those little things, but it wasn't like, oh my God, I'm [inaudible] from that, or it held me back in any way. It was what it was.

Gwen Stefani: And I think there was a point where I could see myself going, okay, I'm expressing myself and I wrote a song called Just a Girl back then, that was before we were successful. Right? I wrote that song years before it ever came out. And that song was just simply like being a female and being born and not really thinking about your gender. And you just are just existing and being loved and loving and doing your thing. And then suddenly you hit puberty and you're like, whoa, what's this? I have this power I didn't think I had. Wait, why won't my dad let me drive tonight? He's saying no because it's dangerous. Oh, I'm actually a victim? I didn't know that. You have this awareness as you grow up of like, okay, I'm different because I'm a girl versus a guy. I mean, this is a huge conversation right now these days, obviously, but that song was written very naively just off of that. Not because I was necessarily angry. You know what I'm saying?

Jess: Yeah. Do you think that song could come out today? I mean, that song still hits today.

Gwen Stefani: It's more relevant today than it ever has been. I feel like I could have written it today and it would've had a different meaning. I think people would've listened to it in a different way. But all these things are interesting things to talk about because it's fun now that I've been around this long to be able to go back and kind of try to analyze why. I'm still wondering, how are people still interested? I feel so blessed. So yeah, now that I'm in this new, new chapter, like you guys are my second interview since I've started this new chapter in my life. And so it's exciting. I feel fired up right now to talk to you about this.

Jess: Well, I feel fired up. I could barely get the question out. I was like [crosstalk]. It's so amazing to talk to you about this, so like all aspects of your career. So anyway, I'm going to pass the mic to Jenn.

Jenn: Well, I was thinking about, nine years you're in the van going from place to place. You didn't have image consultants. Even when you got signed, did they swoop in with image consultants? Like here's your look Gwen.

Gwen Stefani: It's true. I always think about that because I look back at photos and I'm like, ah, what was I doing? And a lot of times through the years people will love to do this where they like pull a bunch of horrible photos of me and want me to sort of give some excuse or feel embarrassed or have regret. And I always say, no, I know exactly why I had pink hair and I know exactly why I had braces at that point. Whatever style thing that happened, it wasn't calculated. I didn't have anybody. I didn't have a stylist. I didn't have a makeup artist. I did not have anyone to help me with anything and in fact I was driving the van. The band will try to tell you that I wasn't driving the van, but that's because they were wasted and they didn't know that I was freaking driving the van. I was driving the van through cornfields, trying to stay awake while we toured. It was really an amazing crazy thing and when I look back at it now, I think that wasn't real.

Gwen Stefani: Everything that was negative had some kind of positive creative consequence. So for example, back in the day, when you see the Just a Girl video and you go, whoa, she's wearing a bindi, or whatever I was wearing, and my makeup, that is how I dressed then. I did not have somebody go, oh, here's some different choices of things you could wear. That was me with my one outfit because I had no money and what I had come up with. Like a tank top was because that's all I had. You know what I'm saying?

Gwen Stefani: So I think there's something probably great about the fact that when you have to be creative within inside a box, and that's what I've learned through the years as well and led me to this point of now being able to create this new line, which I know we're going to get into. It's different when you have to just create and be naive and just try to make your way as I guess an artist, which I didn't even know I was back then. But now I look and I'm like, oh, I guess I was some kind of an artist because I just had this visual, like I see visually. I don't understand a lot of things, I'm not good at a lot, but there're certain things that I am and I'm very focused on those things.

Gwen Stefani: So like at this point I feel like I'm in a place where I learn from everything behind me and now I'm starting a project where I can say, okay, this is a pure passion project. Everything that I've ever done since I was a little girl, all of my interests led me to this moment. And that's why I think it's kind of an exciting time in my life because I think that you can never be prepared for what midlife is going to feel like. After you have your kids and you're sort of like you have achieved so many amazing things and had all these blessed things, it's like, now how do I exist? What version of me am I going to be next and what am I going to give to people that have given me this incredibly blessed existence? So that's kind of where I'm landing today.

Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. It's cool that you got to come up with that look though without 20 people voting on it for you like it happens now with personalities. I have to bring up the bindi because you brought it up. Like you love culture, I can just tell. You get inspired from all over the world. And this is like a really big conversation right now. When you look back on some of those looks, do you ever think like, oh, I might do it differently now. Or if someone else did that, I wouldn't approve.

Gwen Stefani: I don't like the rules that people are putting out there these days as much. I think we had so much more freedom back then to just be and be influenced in just such a pure way. Like I said when we were talking earlier about circumstances, everything culturally that I was basically introduced to, starting with being born in Anaheim, California. Anaheim, California is a very interesting place, that you don't realize when you live somewhere what it is until you get out of it and you look back on it.

Jenn: Yeah. How did that influence you being from there?

Gwen Stefani: It really did influence me a lot. You know I grew up basically in a place where Disneyland is the center, the heartbeat of the city and everybody that is living there is pretty much working in a hotel or a motel or in Disneyland. And that's as big as it got, to work there. That was my dream. "Mom, please. I know I can sing inside the hotel," and, "No, you're not going to be able to do that. You can't stay out late at night and they work on the holidays too." So I think it's one of those things where, like just being able to be around also, we're right next to Mexico. So we had a huge Hispanic community and that was my school. That was my high school. Like those girls that put on their makeup, brows like chola girls, like what? Those eyebrows? Yes, I'm going to do that. They're my homies. That's my people. So you get inspired by the culture around you where you live.

Gwen Stefani: And then, for example, when I met Tony Kanal who was 16 and I was 17 and he was going to Anaheim High School and I didn't know what he was when I met him. He was just very cute and I was very attracted to him and only to find out when I went to his house, I was like, why is there elephants everywhere? Oh, you're from India. Like your family is from India. I'd never met somebody from India at that point in my life. I was only 17. You know what I mean? So it was interesting to watch his mom dress up and come down the stairs ordained in jewelry and glitter and things that like my mom, we went to the fabric store and it was like you can't have even lace. Like you can't have eyelet. My mom was very conservative. I was obsessed with sparkle and girly things and I was very like more is more and my mom would be like less is less. She was from the '60s. So in the '60s things were quite simplified. Jackie Hill, all that stuff.

Gwen Stefani: So to watch this gorgeous human, Tony's mom, her culture, the way she celebrated her face with makeup and her red lipstick and the bindi, she's the one that turned me on. That was the first time I was influenced by that, and she's the one that gave me the bindi. So it was just one of those things where I would just take from everything around me innocently and it became who I was, and that's what we all do. That's how we learn. We learn from each other.

Jenn: I think people forget too that we didn't have social media and exposure on the internet to all of these other things, you saw what was in front of you and clearly you made the most of that. You learned how to do your makeup too. Can we talk about that? Like who taught you how to do makeup?

Gwen Stefani: I taught myself how to do makeup. It was born in me to love makeup. My mom wasn't a huge makeup wearer. She wore a little bit of makeup. My dad's mom, she wore extreme makeup, but she died really when I was young. So I mainly just see pictures of her and go, whoa, what was she doing with that makeup? But I guess when I was about, I don't know what age, about five or six, I had a best friend called Amy Hunter, and her mom had a crap ton of makeup. And we're talking about drawers of makeup. So for me, it was like, "Go tell your mom. Ask her if we can go play makeup." And so we would come home from school and-

Jenn: How old were you about?

Gwen Stefani: Well, I met her when I was five and then we were friends for probably 10 years, through elementary school. And that was just the ritual. And her mom had Mary Kay parties, people who don't know probably they are younger, but there were these home parties where they would have everyone come over, invite your friends, and then they'll tell you that you're an autumn or what color you should be wearing. I was just always so unbelievably mesmerized by that or fascinated by that. So it's not like I can really remember when it started, but it's been forever. And then I was the one that always cut everybody's hair, put their makeup on, curl their hair, bruise their necks with a curling iron. That was me. Everybody knew that that's what I did.

Gwen Stefani: And then basically, I can't remember what age I was, but I want to say I was probably 19 or 20, and I had gotten a job at The Broadway, which is a department store in Anaheim, at the Anaheim Plaza, and I worked for basically Plaza Sportswear, which was older women's pull on polyester pants. And I used to help women try to put outfits together and I really did enjoy that, but I really wanted to be one of those girls that were behind the counter-

Jenn: A beauty girl.

Gwen Stefani: I never thought that I could be, but I wanted to be. And I kind of thought, I know how to do makeup, but they were so flawless and intimidating, and boy, at a different level than me. But anyways, the mall that I worked at, they let me transfer without any training, nothing, and I worked behind the counter for ULTIMA II, which was right when the Nakeds came out. They were the first Nakeds before the Nakeds everyone know now, but ULTIMA II had kind of revamped and they were this small little section in one corner. And then I worked for Borghese, which of course nobody knew of at that mall because it was super expensive and nobody bought it.

Gwen Stefani: So that was me and I was basically next to the clinic girls and they just literally opened the door and said, "Make a display." Nobody taught me anything, but it was some of the greatest moments of my life because I just remember the feeling that people would get when I did their makeup. And mainly people just would come in and say, "Can you put makeup on me," and then give me a sample. They were probably going out that night. You know what I'm saying? Just free, free, free. And so I used to love giving people, I'm all about a makeover. I know what that makes people feel like, and I know what it feels like to give that.

Gwen Stefani: I'm the person that like I go into a restaurant and if the hostess comes and she has some done up eyebrows, she's going to get a major compliment from me because I see in makeup. I appreciate makeup. And if you are listening right now and you feel me, and I know you know who you are, we are like-minded. We are makeup junkies. We are fans. We want to express ourselves through the power of makeup and give that feeling. So whether you're giving it by the face that you put on that day or you're taking it by what someone did to give to you with what they did that morning. I don't know, I live, breathe makeup. I have my whole life.

Gwen Stefani: And so after that, I basically was in no doubt at that point, and from 17 till 26, was just nobody knew who we were besides the underground. And then when Just a Girl came out, when I was 26 years old, a lot of people don't realize I was already that old when that song came out, that's when it was like, okay, I did the video, did my own makeup as usual and then went from that video shoot to a plane and then went on tour for two and a half years and didn't come home. So-

Jenn: Crazy.

Gwen Stefani: It's crazy. I came home I was like, "I got $1,000,000." I had like $1,000 when I left from working at the department store and then basically went around the world and came home and I still lived with my parents.

Jenn: Did you have a makeup artist at that point?

Gwen Stefani: No. No. I never had a makeup artist. I still don't necessarily have. I've worked with incredible makeup artists, but I was traumatized by the first No Doubt record. I had a makeup artist do my makeup and really was not happy with it. Still look at it and go, I could have been so much prettier in those pictures. He made me look not good. And if he's still out there, I'm sorry. We should have tried it again or something. But after that I was always like, I can do it better than that. I know what I'm doing.

Gwen Stefani: And when I look back at the stuff, I didn't necessarily know what I'm doing, but I love makeup because it's never ending. I mean, our faces are a moving target. We're always changing and you can always learn something new. I feel like even just in the last couple of months, I've learned things that I wish I would've known my whole life.

Jess: Are you learning them self-taught or are you learning them from makeup artists that you work with? Are you learning them from YouTube videos, TikTok?

Gwen Stefani: I think everywhere. That's what I love about the beauty community. I think generally we talked a lot about female and female artists and back in the day I didn't really have a lot of female energy around me because I was in a band. I was gone. The only girls that I knew were the girls that wanted to hook up with the guys on tour or the ones that actually hooked up and were the girlfriends of the guys on tour that became my friends. My pet peeve was like I'm trying to do a show and they would always be like, "Ooh, can I borrow your mascara? Can you do my makeup or whatever?" I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm trying to work here."

Gwen Stefani: The thing is that in the beauty community, the one place where girls get along is when we share our beauty secrets. I feel like everybody out there, especially now that we have this ability to upload all of our secrets and share our art and our creativity through makeup, people are happy to share each other's work. You know what I mean? And I love that about it. I feel like it's all about like, ooh, you did this? Let me see if I can do it and then I'm going to show you what I did that you did in my version. And it's just this whole ping-pong match between creativity and expressing yourself through color and art, and I just love it so much. And so I think it's just a place that I think is really a positive place, which is there's not a lot of that these days.

Jess: You're so right. Gwen, I want to thank you for bringing your secrets and your whole line and your energy to Fat Mascara. And you're giving us the exclusive on GXVE, you're coming to us with the exclusive on GXVE. So talk to us about GXVE. I can't believe you've done your own fashion line L.A.M.B., you created a fragrance line underneath L.A.M.B. and you've created so many different sub lines for beauty brands and collaborated with so many beauty brands. You've worked with Urban Decay, which is awesome. You've been a face of L'Oreal, you've been a face of Revlon, and now you finally are doing your own brand. That's just your own. But I feel like this thought had to have occurred to you a long time ago. Why did you wait so long to do it?

Gwen Stefani: It's not like I waited. I think this is the deal, so just back in the day when I was doing music and it was the height of everything, our culture back then didn't approve of, and this is going to sound crazy to people, like the younger girls and the younger people, we didn't do music and then go, okay, I'm going to have a makeup line to go with it. We sold merch. Yeah, we did sell merch, but we didn't sell to our fans.

Jenn: Like a t-shirt?

Gwen Stefani: Our fans, we didn't use them like that. You know what I'm saying? And we were very conscious of-

Jess: I would've bought it.

Gwen Stefani: No, but back then, the idea that you would try to sell something besides, I guess we were selling our music, our music was our heart. You know what I'm saying? Yes, we were getting money for it so that we could continue to do that, but I don't know, it was just different mentality. And I think that when I first started L.A.M.B., I just always loved clothes. I always made my own costumes, my mom and I made all my clothes growing up, not all my clothes, but everything for like a holiday. And her mom made her clothes and my great grandma made their clothes. So it was always in me to be creative in that way.

Gwen Stefani: So I had the idea that I wanted to do fashion. Nobody at that time was doing that. Right? Okay, so I started L.A.M.B., and when I had done L.A.M.B., Le Sport Sac had come to me, it was right in the same time period, and they said, "Would you like to be a guest designer for a collection?" I mean, that was just very unusual at the time and my ego was like, ooh, he said designer. That's kind of cool. That's arty. And I already knew the moment that he asked me to do what it was going to be. And it was going to be those bags that everybody knew about back in the day, the black and white. Like, all that stuff.

Gwen Stefani: So I did them and the reaction was I couldn't even walk down the street in New York without looking on both sides and seeing somebody with a bag. It was the most incredible thing, because not only did I start just being me and then girls were copying that, which was mind blowing to me, that I could look out and see like, wow, wait, you got me on you. I see myself in you, like yes. And it went from like, we get each other, we're together in this, you know what I mean? And so to be able to design something that was super my style that I wanted for myself, I mean, I was the muse for it really, selfishly, but then have other people that were like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to take this and make this part of my style. And it was just a very amazing feeling.

Gwen Stefani: So I think I just needed that assurance or reaction or love to do it and then I started L.A.M.B. and it was just incredible. Because I think all of these things creatively come from the same place in my heart, whether it's the song or the designing of the clothes. When I did the solo records, I wanted to do, instead of just doing a t-shirt with my face on it, I wanted to do a Harajuku world, you know?

Jess: Yeah. When you say the same place in your heart, what do you mean? Just can you expand on that a little bit?

Gwen Stefani: I mean like, if I were to write a song, right? Back in the day naively, without thinking anyone would ever hear it, I don't know where that comes from. That comes from a gift that God gave me. I don't take responsibility for that. Like I just all of a sudden had a song. I don't even know how to write songs, they just came to me. After a while I definitely put effort into trying to write them of course, but I just remember it being like I woke up with an idea and it was all of a sudden everywhere around the world. Or I got my heart broken and then I wrote a song and then everybody, even different languages related to that. So when I say my heart, it's something that was a gift given to me that I could access, that when I did it, other people reacted to it and somehow it felt like it was my purpose. And so I don't really think I was kind of tapped into knowing that back then, but now that I'm more mature, I think I realize that.

Gwen Stefani: But it's the same thing like when, for example, I'm a very lazy person. Typically, I don't feel like I have a lot of discipline, blah, blah, blah, all those things, but then when it comes to my passions, the things that I'm interested in, then it's like full mode, like obsession. Like I can't stop. So that place in my heart. That creative place that makes me feel like I'm actually contributing something to this planet. Like I'm doing what God wants me to do. Like that. So whether that be designing fragrance or designing handbags or putting on a fashion show or writing a song or making a video or just getting ready in the morning [crosstalk]-

Jenn: Did you get that feeling with the makeup line? With GXVE? Is it the same thing?

Gwen Stefani: Well, yes. Well, this is the thing, this is how GXVE happened. So I did all those things and it's no secret that about seven years ago my life exploded. My personal life. My family was torn apart. It was the worst, horriblest, the opposite of the kind of life that I thought I was going to have and it was a really trying time for me. Through that I had Harajuku, I had L.A.M.B., but once I got through that period, it kind of like, okay, I'm in the middle of my life, I can either stop and not do anything or I can just figure out what I want to do next.

Gwen Stefani: And I just kind of assessed everything and thought about it really hard. And we sat down and we discussed like, okay, this is the rest of my life. What am I going to do? What's the plan? And I had thought about, am I going to keep working on L.A.M.B.? Am I going to keep working on Harajuku? What am I going to do? And I really said I want to start something that's not connected to the other part of my life. Like I need to start fresh-

Jess: You wanted to start fresh?

Gwen Stefani: I wanted to do something that was mine and in this more free, happy place that I had gotten to, where I needed to be and start something that was going to be my legacy that basically I could give back after all the blessings I'd been given. And so when I went down all the categories that I had done, and music is always going to be there I guess, but I just was like I want to do makeup. And the only reason was because I had done the Urban Decay thing, so I got to see what that was like. I had done, like you said, L'Oreal, Revlon, and I don't know. Again, like I keep telling you, these ideas aren't coming from me. I really feel like it's just something that I pray about it and it just-

Jess: You think it's divine?

Gwen Stefani: I do believe that, yes, because otherwise I'm just a normal regular person from Anaheim, like nobody, and that I've had this journey is insane. So I'm always trying to connect to figure out what my purpose is now and who I'm supposed to be. If I was chosen to have that much of an impact, I mean, what? Of course, I have to figure out how I'm going to give back. So I think that this line was something I thought about years ago, now I've been actually working on it for three years. So you're my second interview.

Jenn: Well, the name is starting to make sense to me. I was going to ask you how you came up with this name, but now I feel like I have a better sense. But what was the thinking behind that?

Gwen Stefani: Well, I mean, I went through a million different names. Of course, it's very, very hard to put a name to something that's going to be a permanent thing. Hopefully it's going to be here when I'm dead. But I had GX because GX was the way I always signed my name my whole life since high school, with G and then X is supposed to be like a kiss, like you would do. And when you're going through names, it just came across. It looks almost like Gwen if you look at it, with the X because the W, blah, blah, blah. I'm dyslexic, so I see words differently. But I don't know, it felt like with makeup, it's a lot about giving.

Gwen Stefani: Like I said earlier, you're putting it on for yourself, but ultimately you don't walk out the door and stare at yourself all day long. You're giving that, what you did, that art you put on your face, that version of you who you wanted to be that day, for the people around you that you're going to interact with. And so there's a lot of giving involved. I think also, for me, I felt like it was like, okay, I am mid, my middle of my life. The middle of my life. Like if anyone wants to question me about why I'm doing GXVE, I'll fight them. It's so authentic to who I am, the makeup. I went through years of people criticizing me for wearing too much makeup or is she wearing a mask? What is she trying to cover up? Is she even a girl? Like all the things that I heard that people have said about me because of my makeup, but yet has had such an impact on everybody tearing their eyebrows out in the '90s, right?

Gwen Stefani: I mean, I've had an influence and I know that and I love that. I'm ready to be like, that feeling I told you I had back in Anaheim being a makeup artist, when you're able to give that gift to someone, that feeling. Makeup is the makeup. Makeup's like, okay, here's the makeup, it's just makeup. But it's not about just the makeup, it's about the feeling that you get when you feel good and you feel ready and you feel like when you see somebody else and they walk in and you're like, oh my God, you look so pretty. Not because they're physically pretty-

Jenn: We say this all the time.

Gwen Stefani: But it's not just physically pretty.

Jenn: It's for them as much as it is for you.

Gwen Stefani: It is. And so I think that GXVE is a perfect way to describe that because it's also the community that I think that, I'm not speaking obviously to everyone, because not everyone's going to understand this or care, you know what I'm saying? But the people that do are going to be like, yeah, homie, I get you. Yes. We're like-minded because we like it. We don't know why. I don't know why I like pizza. I do. So there you go. You know what I'm saying?

Jenn: I have to ask you about the red lips. Because I'm a red lip girl, and I was like, who better to get a red lip from than Gwen? Like seriously. But what's the difference between original recipe and old school me? I really trying to suss out the difference of these reds.

Gwen Stefani: Well, the thing is that with red, that's like the most asked question of my entire existence. What color of red do you wear? It's really hard because of course I've worn so many different shades of red, and if you are a makeup junkie, you realize that there're just so many versions. I've always tended to go for more of a blue red typically, but then again, through working with incredibly talented makeup artists through the years, I've been able to try different things that I didn't think I could wear or I would like and it's just never ending. You know what I mean? It's never ending what it could be.

Gwen Stefani: So when I did the original, they're different formulas, so there're different formulas for the different kinds of lipsticks, of course. And then there's going to be all the different shades. And the shades is just the shades, because the shades are going to be forever. Like I'm always going to be coming with another red. You know what I'm saying? The one I'm wearing right now is basically my go-to kind of like. I think it works for everything. It's flattering, it doesn't matter what lighting, it doesn't matter what time of the day, what event, I feel like this is the color that is going to work. I mean, at the end of the day I think that-

Jenn: Wait, which one is it? [crosstalk].

Gwen Stefani: This is... I can't even read it right now.

Jenn: I'm like, what's that? Original Recipe. Okay.

Gwen Stefani: That's a matte lipstick. So what I'm saying is that like I have Anaheim Shine, which is more of a shiny formula. Right? And that comes in different shades. And then I have original recipe, which is a matte lipstick. That's the color. I like the matte generally in my entire career because of my career. Like I'm on stage. I got the kids all over me. A matte lipstick is obviously a lot safer. I think most people that are just regular people in life, don't like to wear a matte because it's a lot less comfortable, but I feel like this formula solved that problem because it doesn't feel dry. You could still move it once it's on and it stays in place enough, but it also is still comfortable. And then of course the long wear stuff that we have as well. So it's like three different formulas that we've done. But I mean-

Jenn: Oh my gosh, love the name. I'm still here.

Gwen Stefani: Yeah. That was really fun too because I think doing this now at this point in my life, there's already such a roadmap to get here. I've done so many things that are tying into this line and I just want to make it feel familiar. I don't feel cocky, but I feel confident that people will trust me on this. I mean, I'm a makeup junkie and I'm intimidated. Like I go online to try to buy something and I just don't even know where to go, where to look, where to turn, what to buy.

Jess: You're buying product online, Gwen? You're online shopping with your credit card? I don't believe it.

Gwen Stefani: Well, have you seen me at the mall lately? I don't think you have. It's not like...

Jess: I know. No, no, I just feel like brands would be sending you stuff. No, I don't see you at the Anaheim mall with your shopping bag [crosstalk]-

Gwen Stefani: No, I love shopping online and I love buying makeup online. But I'm blessed, I can afford to buy makeup online and be like, okay, I didn't like that. Give it to my sister, whatever. But I think that most people, they don't even know where to begin. Like I want to buy an eyebrow pencil, which one? There're so many. But what I'm hoping is that anyone that knows me knows that I've never done stuff unless I did it for my passion, for my truth. You know what I'm saying? So every single thing that I've worked on on this line is stuff that I'm doing for myself, that is my quality. You're going to be guaranteed that it's going to be at the standard. It's going to be clean. It's going to be sustainable. Of course, it's going to be all those things.

Gwen Stefani: But I think it's going to be a high performance makeup for makeup artists, for people that love makeup. I want people to feel safe that they can trust me on this one, because this is my whole life. This is what I've done my whole life, and I'm at a place where I still, especially speaking to the women that are like my age, that still want to be pretty, still want to be relevant, still want to have a voice in the world and feel good in the morning when they put their makeup on. I think that there're a lot of people out there that just feel like they got forgotten. You know what I'm saying? And that's why I think this makeup line speaks to them as well. Not to mention all the kids that are going to be like, oh yeah, my mom listened to her. She probably knows what she's talking about when it comes to makeup. So I think people are going to [crosstalk]-

Jess: Gwen, you're ageless.

Gwen Stefani: Well, thank you. But you know, there's a lot that goes into that and that is makeup. Makeup is very, very powerful. There's magic in the makeup.

Jess: As the song goes. Okay, we can't let you go without doing-

Gwen Stefani: I was testing you. I was seeing if you're a real fan or not.

Jess: Oh, she knows it. Gwen, come on on. Would I lie to you? Okay. On the air, especially? Come on. Okay. We're going to do the quick Fat Mascara five. It's quick word association, all right? Whatever comes to your head. First makeup memory. You already told us about Amy Hunter.

Gwen Stefani: Oh, Amy Hunter. Hey Amy. What's up? I did her makeup for her wedding, by the way.

Jess: Oh wow.

Gwen Stefani: Yeah.

Jess: That's a claim to fame. Besides Amy Hunter, what is your first makeup memory?

Gwen Stefani: The first one that comes to my mind was my grandma gave me one of those tubes that has like five different lipsticks in it. And the first time I ever put red lipstick on sitting in my Honda Prelude in the driveway and looking in the rear view mirror and putting on red lipstick going, yeah, that's me for the rest of my life. Why have I not done this yet?

Jess: Biggest risk you ever took with your look?

Gwen Stefani: I think probably ex-girlfriend working with a makeup artist that was recommended to me through the video director that did that. And just going so bold, like crazy bold.

Jess: Did you like it or is it just like, it was a risk?

Gwen Stefani: It was a risk. I'm the kind of person that when I look back at those kinds of things, I'm never going to say I regret anything because I know why I did it and it happened, it's done. Yeah, no, I learned a lot.

Jess: Favorite fragrance besides your own.

Gwen Stefani: I like…what's it called? I think it's called Paris. I like that. That brings a lot.

Jess: Cool. Workout song.

Gwen Stefani: That's a good question. You know what? I like to listen to Post Malone a lot when I work out. Or I listen to Rick Warren, who's my church guy that I love to listen to. I like to do spiritual exercise at the same time that I'm doing physical exercise. You should try it. It's actually very powerful.

Jess: Okay. And then that's a nice lead into our last one. What is the mantra you live by?

Gwen Stefani: The mantra? I don't know if it's a mantra, but I-

Jess: Like you're a spiritual person, so uplift us. Leave us with something that's going to get us through a rough time or maybe something that got you through a rough time.

Gwen Stefani: Okay. I guess what I would say is really try to find what your gift is and if you open your eyes and you ask, you will find it, and then when you use it, that will be very fulfilling. So that's kind of what I try to do every day.

Jenn: Find your gift.

Jess: Find your gift.

Jess: Did you ever ask someone what your gift was or did you know what your gift was right away? You sold a lot of albums, you know what your gift was?

Gwen Stefani: I didn't know. I didn't realize that it was a gift until later when people liked it.

Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're very gifted.

Gwen Stefani: Thank you.

Jess: Thank you so much for coming on our show. This was amazing, Gwen.

Gwen Stefani: Thanks for having me and thanks for-

Jenn: Congrats on the line.

Gwen Stefani: ... listening to my music all these years and looking at my makeup [crosstalk] years.

Jess: This was awesome. Thank you.